Curse

Matsumi · Apr 15, 2006, 02:20 AM // 02:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

Same answer ofcourse... the box would not make it to the earth. The cat would have babies and die before it did. Those babies would beget more cats and the leaking of radiation from the bomb would accelerate the genetic mutation in the species. Prior to the box entering the atmosphere the cats would evolve in to a two legged upright walking species that would workship fiji. These intelligent upright walking cats would engineer the box into a spaceship and never find their ultimate goal... but they would enjoy the company of a man named Lister and his companion Rimmer.

lol, we should hang out sometime. Good theory.

Ira Blinks · Apr 15, 2006, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Str0b0

I see so computer science qualifies you to understand quantum mathemtatics. Wow who'd have thought that any network admin could be the next Stephen Hawking. You lack the education to deal with the mathematical concepts so I won't continue the argument further both for the sake of staying on topic and for the sake of me keeping my patience. I feel like I'm trying to explain the workings of an internal combustion engine to cavemen.

I feel the same, except I actually tryed, and you blindly insisted that im wrong at every argument i threw at you. Go away kid, Im done with you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

I will not attack this, but it would be fun to toy with you.

ummm your point?

Edit:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cymboric Treewalker

Let me make this easy for you...

You = human

Mob 1 = simulated human AI (it should move aware from AOE stuff)

Mob 2 = simulated animal AI (it should either run away in fear -- defeated or stupidly go in to a rage and get nuked)

I would be happy if not all the critters had the same reaction to AOE but with them all having the same reaction it does not make sense...

Heck with my R/Me I don't bother moving out of the way for most elemental AOE -- it gives me energy and barely scratches me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by myself

ummm your point?

The Purple Pants Guy · Apr 15, 2006, 03:39 AM // 03:39

Reading this thread makes me feel like I'm sitting in a civilized version of RA.

Bleidd · Apr 15, 2006, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

Elementalists and mesmers don't suck for solo farming, you just suck at solo farming with them. Both can be effective 55 builds. Elementalists can titan farm, which you can't do. Mesmers are exceedingly helpful in a FoW group. In fact, they're exceedingly useful everywhere. Elementalists are a bit gimped atm from the AoE nerf, but again, just because you cannot use an ele correctly does not mean that everyone else can't.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but by 55 build you mean E/Mo and Me/Mo, and its the /Mo half that's doing most of the work?

Earth and Water Elementalists have always been "gimped" by a combination of player mentality and the ability to brute-force your way through every mission and quest in the game.

Fire Elementalists had a niche in the AoE DoT/DD department. Now that its been "gimped" by a combination of player mentality (notice any patterns?) and an AI buff, they're in the same boat as Hydro- and Geomancers.

Mesmers, along with Interrupt Rangers and Battery Necromancers, are generally brought along for a single purpose on certain missions. Very rarely do you see more than one in a group.

Folks can say what they want about how great a profession is et cetera ad nauseum. The fact remains you can log into any town at any given time, and see one Elementalist or Mesmer for every handful of the other four professions. I can't even remember the last time I wasn't the only Elementalist in a group.

Cymboric Treewalker · Apr 15, 2006, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Matsumi:

Sure we should meet in game... I tend to get a wee bit wacky there too... fun ya know? I mean that is what games are about... right?

Ira:

My point on the "I will not attack you" quote was that I would not, but that it would be fun... I like toying with people that discuss mathematics.

My point on the AI/AOE issue is that not all creatures in PvE should have top 500 player AI. Some are dumb, some are smart. The AI needs to reflect that.

Bleidd:

The Mo half need not do most of the work... just the protection bit.

Jagflame · Apr 15, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

Quote:

I dont know if you aware, but AoE nerf was applied to spell that cause damage over time faster than every 2 seconds. Thus Barrage _is_ supposed to cause scattering, and so is SS, but not Hundred blades or cyclone axe.

Alright, I know I got into the thread late, but I SERIOUSLY feel the need to clear up this garbage.

Barrage does not cause damage over time. It causes the damage once every time you cast it. Although you can cast it faster than every two seconds, it only deals damage when you cast it and therefore, although it is area of effect of a sort (It has a limited number of targets, unlike what I normally consider AoE) it is most certainly not DoT.

About Spiteful Spirit, you are completely wrong about that too. Unlike Barrage though, I can actually see where you might get the idea that this falls under the nerf. However, it doesn't. As you should know, Spiteful Spirit is a hex which deals damage to the target and its adjacent allies whenever it attacks or uses skills.

This seems to be AoE DoT, and it seems to do damage faster than every two seconds. But that is misleading. Spiteful Spirit is enormously different than fire storm and the other well known AoE DoT spells in that the field is centered around the monster itself, not a position on the field. Running in a blind craze over a hex casted on you would be utterly idiotic, probably stupider than standing and taking a meteor shower. The simple reason for this is, no matter where you are, the "AoE field" travels with you because it isn't targeted to a direct spot on the map.

Another simple reason that this is not an AoE DoT spell, or at least not one of the typical kind, is the complete ability by the enemy to control the damage. Spiteful Spirit does not deal damage directly, but rather indirectly through the outcome of the enemy's actions. In PvP, a warrior with SS cast on him simply needs to stop attacking and there will be no damage. Actually, if they really did nerf Spiteful that would be the best way to do it (But please AreaNet, don't do it lol) because that's simply what a normal (I'm not thinking RA Wammos) would do.

Finally, Spiteful Spirit does not "do damage more than every two seconds". Well it does, but only in some cases. As SS is directly linked to the enemy's attack, the enemy has complete control over how many times and how often SS does damage. If the enemy attacks less than every two seconds, then it will recieve damage less than two seconds. As there is not a set amount of times it is hit for in two seconds, it therefore does/should not apply in the nerf.

Stabber · Apr 15, 2006, 05:19 AM // 05:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jagflame

About Spiteful Spirit [...] This seems to be AoE DoT, and it seems to do damage faster than every two seconds. But that is misleading. Spiteful Spirit is enormously different than fire storm and the other well known AoE DoT spells in that the field is centered around the monster itself, not a position on the field. Running in a blind craze over a hex casted on you would be utterly idiotic, probably stupider than standing and taking a meteor shower. The simple reason for this is, no matter where you are, the "AoE field" travels with you because it isn't targeted to a direct spot on the map.

Another simple reason that this is not an AoE DoT spell, or at least not one of the typical kind, is the complete ability by the enemy to control the damage. Spiteful Spirit does not deal damage directly, but rather indirectly through the outcome of the enemy's actions. In PvP, a warrior with SS cast on him simply needs to stop attacking and there will be no damage. Actually, if they really did nerf Spiteful that would be the best way to do it (But please AreaNet, don't do it lol) because that's simply what a normal (I'm not thinking RA Wammos) would do.

While I generally agree with you that SS isn't a garden variety AoEDoT hex (in the sense of triggering the chicken run), there is at least one similarity it shares with Mark of Pain, which is -- it deals damage to nearby allies of the target when some event happens. Regardless of whether the target of the hex goes running or not, there is no principal reason his allies must stick close to him within SS's range.

That is to say, if Anet really wanted to nerf SS, they can do one of two things: make monsters stop using skills if hexed with SS, or make allies of the monster flee from the hexed monster. The former is so far unprecedented and would require teaching the AI some shutdown theory (see also: Empathy, Insidious Parasite, Backfire, etc.). The latter has a fair amount of precedent now.

Jagflame · Apr 15, 2006, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Well, there's another issue there as well. If the monster is incapable of realising that there is a hex on him and that he needs to stop attacking, then he would also run madly in order for any of the others to. Because if the others all get damaged from Spiteful Spirit and run, and they are too stupid to tell what hexes they have on them, what's stopping the monster that has the original hex from running with them? Nothing, so it just leads to blind and idiotic crazes which, as I have already mentioned, are even stupider than tanking a meteor shower.

Having monsters run from hexes like Spiteful Spirit is stupid, but then again I didn't agree with most of the AoE nerf altogether. And really though, I'm not argueing whether or not Spiteful Spirit is overpower/should be nerfed, I'm argueing whether or not it should have been included in the AoE DoT nerf.

Generally I believe that human/intelligent AIs (Henchmen, White Mantle, Forgotten, etc) should be able to have some general sense of shutdown and hexes, but monster/animal AIs (Minotaurs, Hydras, Wolves) should have a less developed sense of them. Maybe I'm asking for too much, but different AIs should have different methods based on the average intelligence we would think of the creature as having. AoE stuff should be the same way: Many animals have the sense to seek shelter in a thunderstorm, but some pay no attention. Yes this entire thing would be difficult to impliment (To say the least), but it would be pretty nice if it actually happened.